Linux thoughts

[Ted]

Ah the gauntlet is down, now there's a challenge. 

It honestly wasn't meant to sound like a challenge, more of an evaluation of Unix/Linux evolution

If you can sort the CMOS problem that machine sounds ideal.
I'm sure others and certainly me, would be genuinely interested in your views, good or bad.

A note to all
Paul made a good point in his last post in so much as, no knowledge of the command line is required to either install or use modern Linux distributions. If all you want to do is point and click, that's fine. if you want to go further you can, the choice is yours and in my opinion that's a good thing.

[LesD]

It honestly wasn't meant to sound like a challenge, more of an evaluation of Unix/Linux evolution

No worries, taken all in good spirit! 

If you can sort the CMOS problem that machine sounds ideal.

I have just been and had a look it's going to need a HDD as well and the U2 batteries!
How big do you reckon I would need? I'm a dab hand on eBay so that should not be too much of an issue.
There was a DVD Rom sitting on top of the case that I had also completely forgotten about so I am in with a chance.

I'm sure others and certainly me, would be genuinely interested in your views, good or bad.

It takes my fancy too so as I said it is not going to be straight away but it is becoming plan!

If all you want to do is point and click, that's fine. ........................in my opinion that's a good thing.

I second that, well for home use and I will add that I doubt Linux will replace UNIX in the immediate future for corporate applications.

[Dangerjunkie]

I just installed an Ubuntu machine with Gnome and KDE desktop. I've fun some quite heavy programs so there is some data around. I think the OS takes up about 5GB. Plus you need some swap... (generally twice the amount of RAM you have) The disc is a runnable system and that fits in 700MB.

I'd say that 20GB should be a big enough drive to have a pretty good play.

Anybody else have a size in mind?

Cheers,
Paul.

[LesD]

Anybody else have a size in mind?

Me!    (and I don't mean the sort I see those dodgy emails about before anyone asks)! 

I have just bought this on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320240498298

I guess I am committed one way     or another now!

[markiep]

When I got my new vista machine last year I installed Ubuntu on my
old win 98 machine. It has given it a new lease of life.

Apart from the 3d desktop effects it runs happily on a PIII 700,
512mb RAM, 32Meg 3d card  - It took a little time to get it all running as I like it
but I prefere it to my windows machine and with the next release  I
will dual boot my laptop.

If you get a CD either download or order a free one from the ubuntu
website you can boot and run straight from the disc before installing.
Also the support forums are excellent for sorting out any problems.

Cheers

Mark

[LesD]

The 40 GB Seagate HDD arrived today and looks immaculate. 
I just hope its functionality matches its looks!

I will keep you posted.

[LesD]

Come on you guys and gal, who have encouraged me down this path to Linux where are you? 

I have the "new" 40 GB HDD installed in the case with my Jetway MoBo and its AMD Athlon 1.4 GHz Thunderbird processor. This is the MoBo that consumes CMOS batteries like there is no tomorrow! 

(As and aside does anyone know how to fix this problem? I am a dab hand with a soldering iron when I know what to do.  )

Currently I am using number 2 machine as I have the screen for number 1 machine hooked up to the video card in the Jetway Mobo and having booted from a W'98 Startup floppy disk, I have it running Scandisk (remember that) on my "new" HDD and it said it could take 7 hours! 

Half an hour down and so far there have been no problems but time will tell.

Since the HDD was seen OK by my W'98 floppy install it must have a FAT format at the moment. Being an NTFS format man I was wondering, before I convert it to NTFS, if I have to leave it as FAT for Linux.

So now I need guidance.
I know that I have to download the Linux CD contents so I am going to look up the link you gave me earlier and get that underway soon. When I have this CD is it bootable?
Will it format and install Linux to an empty FAT format C: from scratch or will it need to overwrite a Windows OS?

All advice will be gratefully accepted but lets not have too many saying , Les forgoodness sake stick XP on it and be done with it  because I am steadfastly resisting this at the moment. 

[Danni]

Linux has its own filesystems. You may be able to install it to a FAT (32 I hope- you've got no chance on old FAT) partition but I certainly wouldn't recommend it. The installation will allow you to repartition the drive (if I wasn't dual booting I'd have three partitions- 2 ext3 (one for root, one for home) and 1 swap. As it is on my main laptop I have 2 NTFS partitions as well, one for Windows and one for sharing files between Windows and Linux, as Linux can read/write to NTFS without problem these days but Windows cannot understand ext3 yet. On my desktop it's even more complex, as I have three harddrives in there...). It can automatically do this for you, or you can do it manually. Both are simple.

If you're downloading the CD, it will be an iso. You will need to use a program such as Nero to burn the iso to the CD so that it is bootable. Unfortunately I don't know of any other Windows programs for doing this, but there's bound to be a freeware program out there that will do this. If you don't have Nero let me know and I'll go hunt for you.

If you download live install CD such as Ubuntu you'll get to try it out before install. It also means if you've got simple network hardware (such as most ethernet ports) you can be on the internet while it's installing, something I always find cool

If you have any more questions, I'll answer them if I can

[Ted]

Beat me to it Danni
I hit post, got the warning, had a look and it was you, Yours is a bit better than mine

[LesD]

Hi Danni,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I can format the drive FAT, FAT32 or NTFS so that's not a problem but I guess the only way it can have an "ext3" format is from the Linux install CD.

I have only one physical Hard Drive so it will have to be partitioned. I can relate root, home and swap partitions to similar UNIX Volumes that I know and love. I do wonder that if I don't create at least one FAT or NTFS partition if there would be any way back without doing a low level format of the HDD. What do you know on this score? 

When I can get my number 1 machine back I will set about downloading the CD. Strictly this one, my number 2 machine, is the one that "she who must be obeyed" believes is hers and I can see me being kicked off it before too long. 

I want the Scandisk to complete so that I can post Feedback for the seller up on eBay.
His service was great - I bought the HDD Wednesday evening - the package was delivered Friday.
I screwed the HDD and my DVDRom drive in the case yesterday and booted up today so I don't want to keep the seller waiting too much longer.

Is there anything else other than Nero? 
Burning an iso image with Nero is not a problem for me but thanks for the offer to look for an alternative. By the way is there a Nero for Linux? 

There is a LAN card in the Jetway Mobo but I will see how I get on stand alone for starters. Maybe when the times comes it wll seem a natural progression but my old instincts are still very much alive! 

Any luck with Chown and Chmod on the second of your servers?

[Danni]

Okay

If you decide you hate Linux and want to go back to Windows, both the Windows XP and Windows Vista discs can delete the Linux partitions and reformat with NTFS, so there's no problem there (I've done it before- my main laptop was all Ubuntu at one point, but I reformatted it with Vista so Currys would repair it). I have the seperate /home partition so I don't lose all my data if I change distros or want to reinstall for any reason, but this isn't necessary.

ImgBurn is meant to burn iso images to disc properly. I liked the program it's based on, so it should be okay. Yes there is a Nero for Linux, but I don't use it- K3B does pretty much everything I want (and it's free).

You'll be fine with installing without net access at first, but you may need to reenable the internet repositories for software and updates afterwards. That can be done in the package manager.

Good luck

[Rik]

How about writing a guide to Linux that we could sticky as a FAQ, Danni?

[Danni]

I may give that a shot, Rik. What sort of information would be useful? I find it easier to answer questions than try and think what people would want/need to know by myself.

[Rik]

I was thinking of a step-by-step guide, assuming no prior knowledge other than Windows, with software recommendation for all the common tasks, eg browser, email client, photo-retouching, CD/DVD burning (and playing).

Something which would help anyone who wanted to give Linux a try to have a go with a degree of certainty, eg something between an encyclopaedia and an instruction manual.

[Danni]

Okay, I can probably manage that. Can I include a list of open source programs for Windows users as well?

[Rik]

Please do.  

[Sebby]

Okay, I can probably manage that. Can I include a list of open source programs for Windows users as well?

As long as you don't mention OpenOffice.

[Danni]

Sebby, it will, both for Windows and Linux. It's a decent program, and it improves with each update.

[Sebby]

Fair enough.

[LesD]

Wow,

The replies have been coming in while I have been distracted with unscheduled repairs to my youngest daughter's carpet cleaner. Ever had one apart? No well my advice would be don't! Nuff said it is working again now and we even got the kitchen carpet cleaned while she tested it! 

Sounds promising then Danni I shall most likely go for a Linux only install with no FAT or NTFS partitions.
The 7 hours to Scandisk this 40 GB drive is looking to me to be more like 10 at the present rate of progress. So far its done nearly 550,000 clusters out of 1.22 million so still under half way in 4-1/2 hours.

The good new is so far there are no bad clusters! 

At this rate its looking like next weekend or even the weekend after as my Grandaughter first birthday part is next Saturday leaving the other weekend chores for Sunday.  My RFI filters have taken a back seat too! I need to retire but how would I fund all my quirky interests then? A rhetorical question so ignore it! 

For now I shall do my CD/DVD burning with Nero in XP Pro. CD/DVD burns in Linux will be strictly experimental for the time being should I get that far.

Another little task I want to address before I close up the case on this potential Linux machine is to fix the CMOS battery problem. I have in mind replacing one or both of the diodes down by the CMOS battery just in case one or the other has gone leaky. A hardware "expert" with a view on this would be appreciated. I have posted elsewhere about this in the past and have received mixed advice about it.

I take it you have not bottomed out you chown - chmod issue yet despite my earlier suggestion to look at the hierarchy of your Group permissions! 

I reckon with a bit of Googling you could probably come up with the "Idiot's guide to Linux" that Rik has challenged you with. There must be one out there on there already somewhere on the  World Wide Web! 

[LesD]

While I am waiting for the scandisk to finish I thought I would take a couple of pictures to share with you. 

Spot the 2700 still on a box on the floor.

The scandisk has now reached 70% and all's well. 



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Sebby]

Not much longer to go. 

[Simon]

Oh, for a wireless PC, eh, Les?  Mine looks like a birds nest at the moment, and the bloody wires aren't long enough to move out the way, not to mention that some of them have to drag across the mobo.   

[Sebby]

Don't worry, you'll get there.

[merlin]

lesD what is going on???

a 2700 on its side , on the floor ??   just waiting to catch every stray bit of dust within 100 yards,

come on, get it off the floor and stood up, better ventilation, runs cooler (always a good thing )and less dust