New UBOSS VOIP service in addition to CENTREX

[goldberg]

Having recently starting using IDNet's Centrex service with a Yealink W73P basestation DECT system, I've just notice on the www.idnet.com portal that IDNet is now offering a lower-cost VOIP contract:  'UBOSS Basic Phone Service', that allows the use of various VOIP hardware, including:

-  Grandstream HT801 ATA
- Cisco SPA191 ATA
- Yealink W73P DECT basestation and handset
- and they are also trialling a TP-Link VX230v AX1800 WiFi6 Modem/Router (broadband and phone router)

Good to see IDNet's range of VOIP offerings is expanding.

[Simon]

Just in time!  I'm just considering whether to renew my contract in January.

Though, I still don't see why I can't retain my current Gigaset DECT phone.

[stan]

I was grateful to have received a note on my phone letting me know about the new post on here. I can see the Idnet addition to their "landline" options having been kindly pointed to it by goldberg. It wasn't there last time I looked, but that was a month or so ago.

It's a bit of a shame Idnet haven't contacted customers telling them about it though.  I thought I was subscribed to the newsletter and have re-subscribed in case I wasn't.

I'm thinking that this latest, monthly contract, introduction is due to the Centrex plan (which has a 24 month contract attached) being too pricey?

The new offering is still a good bit dearer than the Andrews and Arnold "landline" option at less than £1.50 a month and calls at 1.5 pence per minute and no connection fee and the last time I looked the monthly A&A broadband charges were broadly in line with Idnet. Neither being what you'd call "cheap" but both having UK customer service and the ability to speak to a real person rather than the alternative arrangements with most of the big boys.

I couldn't see the bit that said you couldn't use your existing DECT phone, Simon.  Show me if you will. ..... the Andrews and Arnold system (which offers a Technicolour router) apparently allows the use of two 'old type' connections ( I think they're called RJ11 ? ) into the back of the router (via the two green FXS ports) and they said you can use the old type DECT cordless phone as well as a fixed desk type, corded, phone at the same time, using both green ports.

Had you pursued your move away from Idnet, Simon, where might you have gone?

[Simon]

I'm still here, Stan.  I'm paid up until the end of January so I will look at options after Christmas.  I may just upgrade the broadband and leave the old phone service as it is for now.

[stan]

Understood, Simon.

Had you looked at Andrews and Arnold (A&A ) to see how they compared?

[Simon]

I had a quick glance at A&A, but I think I need to look more closely to actually work out their prices, which don't seem too obvious on the website. 

[Simon]

What's the actually difference between UBOSS and Centrix?

[stan]

The prices are there but it's quite a comprehensive site with lots of stuff for the more "techie" user (which I am definitely not) .... but I've rang a couple of times, both the sales number and the technical number and the responses have been reassuring in the extreme.  The 115mb option was £37 a month ... it's definite listed, it's called HOME 1 then FTTP OPENREACH then go down to the list and see the 115/20 entry at the top ... it's £37 for a (huge) one TB allowance. the phone service is below that. There are installation charges and a fee to port your landline over to them.

It doesn't make it all that clear (to me at least) what the difference between Centrx and UBOSS is but Centrex calls are cheaper per minute than UBOSS and UBOSS charges an extra £2 a month for answerphone/voicemail.  There must be other differences. Centrex is too expensive in my opinion and if you include the calls and the voicemail UBOSS isn't cheap at £11 a month either. Whether the inclusive calls option is worthwhile obviously depends how many outgoing calls you make in a month.

I don't know anyone who uses Idnet or Andrtews and Arnold ... they all use the bigger companies .... but the only reason I stick with the smaller concerns is the ability to speak to someone.  I don't have much confidence in my abilities to solve problems.

[nowster]

Surprised they're not allowing BYOD SIP connections at that price. The Sipura/Cisco ATA is a good price (and has two FXS sockets) but the Grandstream one is about £20 above what you can buy it for elsewhere.

The requirement would be for some sort of TLS for the SIP control link, and some sort of encryption on the RTP/RTCP packets (carrying the voice).

[Simon]

Surprised they're not allowing BYOD SIP connections at that price. The Sipura/Cisco ATA is a good price (and has two FXS sockets) but the Grandstream one is about £20 above what you can buy it for elsewhere.

The requirement would be for some sort of TLS for the SIP control link, and some sort of encryption on the RTP/RTCP packets (carrying the voice).

And, in English...?   

[Simon]

I'm aware that we now have several threads running with the same topic.  I'll try and do a merge at some point.

I've just worked out that if I take the cheapest FTTP option and UBOSS with IDNet, including calls (which includes calls to mobiles which my current package doesn't), the difference in cost to what I paid last year would be negligible, and certainly not worth the potential hassle and drama of migrating. 

[peasblossom]

This UBOSS deal looks pretty good, but I'm rather put off by the cost of the equipment that goes with it.

[Simon]

This UBOSS deal looks pretty good, but I'm rather put off by the cost of the equipment that goes with it.

This is a bit of a bugbear for me.  They're pushing new equipment and giving the impression that the service won't work without purchasing their hardware - which is a significant additional expense.  I have a perfectly adequate DECT phone, and a router with a 1Gb port which I think would be compatible.  So, why should I buy new equipment?

[peasblossom]

Exactly. I would stick with IDNet for fibre/digital voice in the future if they changed their stance on this, or made it possible to switch to it without incurring all those additional costs. The router I have was from IDNet too so I'd really hope that was compatible. It's a real shame.

[Simon]

Have you actually asked them about using your existing hardware?  I really don't think it can be compulsory to buy new equipment to carry on using their service. 

[nowster]

Ah, but does your router have a telephone handset port?

[peasblossom]

Have you actually asked them about using your existing hardware?  I really don't think it can be compulsory to buy new equipment to carry on using their service. 

No I haven't. But now you suggest it, I think I will.

[Simon]

Ah, but does your router have a telephone handset port?

Don't think so.  But didn't I read somewhere that you can get an adapter of some kind to use a DECT phone over VoIP?

[Postal]

Don't think so.  But didn't I read somewhere that you can get an adapter of some kind to use a DECT phone over VoIP?

Like on this page: https://www.amazon.co.uk/voip-ata/s?k=voip+ata.

The supply of the kit probably depends on whether you are using a ISP provided router which is still their property (so it will be up to them to keep you connected) or you used your own router when you signed up (in which case likely down to you to provide any extra kit required even if you bought the original router from the ISP).

[Simon]

Like on this page: https://www.amazon.co.uk/voip-ata/s?k=voip+ata.

Yes.  Only, that particular one doesn't seem to have a very good review.

[peasblossom]

No I haven't. But now you suggest it, I think I will.

And here's what they say.

"If you want to use your own phone then you will only need to purchase an adaptor.
You shouldn't need to purchase a new router."

An adapter is £66 iirc.

[Simon]

I think that makes it a less bitter pill to swallow.   

[stan]

Hello again fellas.

After continued delays in doing anything I'm getting closer to placing an order for FTTP.

Apologies if any of the following has been said before further up.

There remains (for me) the choice of moving to Andrews and Arnold and going for their basic FTTP for £37 and having their Technicolour router .  I believe you could keep your own analogue old style phone and plug it straight in to the back of that router in order to use their (very reasonably priced) VOIP phone service ... but I could be wrong ... I'm just recalling what they told me many months ago.

The other option for me would be to stay with Idnet and go for their £36 a month (inc VAT) FTTP 150 service (it's £36 if you have a 12 month plan or £45 if monthly)  and to go for their UBOSS basic VOIP phone plan (either with or without the calls inclusive. option)

When I called I spoke to two different people ... one recommended the TP Link VX230 router/modem and the other recommended the TP Link HX220 router (on the basis that I don't need a modem with FTTP).  I was slightly disappointed to get two differing opinions there, but hey ho.

It was pretty definite, however, that I need an ATA in order to connect my two old analogue phones (one a very conventional desk/loudspeaker type phone and the other an old DECT BT cordless arrangement with a couple of extension cordless phones around the house) ... and the ATAs that Idnet offer would be either the Grandstream or the CIsco - and as I want to plug two phones into it I'd need the (more expensive) Cisco ATA. Both the ATA and the router would be configured by Idnet before they post them out to me.

It was emphasised that it would be best to order the FTTP and get it working .... THEN...  request porting of my landline over to VOIP using the existing landline number.

None of this comes remotely naturally to me and I'm not looking forward to it.  I'm very open to the thoughts of others if it's considered I'm acting unwisely here.

Ta.

[Simon]

I'm keeping my analogue phone line for now, until the FTTP is up and running, which at the moment is in the lap of the Openreach gods. 

I've ordered the ASUS RT-AX59U router from IDNet, which I am under the impression my Siemens Gigaset DECT phone will connect to directly, but I can't say this with any certainty.

[peasblossom]

So, what order to do things. I'd like to swap to A+A for my phone line but they can't take it over till I have full fibre broadband. Do I deal with that first then the phone? I don't want to lose my landline number.

[stan]

Sorry for slow reply, Simon.

First thing to bear in mind :-  I'm a complete, know nothing simpleton and I'm usually wrong.

First observation and statement of the flaming obvious is ... if you (and I) hope to use the old style analogue phones from yesteryear i.e. your old Gigaset and my old BT Diverse 5110 and Berkshire 800 speakerphone VIA VOIP then we need to connect them to the net either via an ATA (the adaptor box) or straight in to the back of a router WHICH IS EQUIPPED TO ACCEPT THE OLD STYLE ANALOGUE PHONE(S).  And it would seem apparent that not many newish routers which work with FTTP have the ports to accept the phones in question. The port required is called an FXS port.

Andrews and Arnold supply a router called Technicolour  DGA0122 which DOES have two FXS ports on the back to accept analogue phones withouth the need for a seperate ATA. They configure it before posting it out to you if you subscribe to their FTTP service. And, as mentioned, their VOIP service is apparently good and cheap and their customer service is highly rated.

Regarding yout ASUS router, Simon, I can't see any reference to FXS ports on the back therefore I can't imagine it will accept an analogue phone (such as your Gigaset) and you'll need to get an ATA as well. As mentioned Idnet supply a couple, a Grandstream and a Cisco. The Cisco has two FXS ports and the Grandsteam has one.

From what I can see very few routers have FXS ports on them and the Technicolour is one such router. I'm not at all sure it's the best router in the world .... the engineer I spoke to locally doesn't think so anyway and |I'm not sure it is of the very latest specification .... but I'm no expert.

I don't believe any of the IDnet supplied routers have FXS ports and all require an ATA to connect analogue phones to the net via VOIP.  The router that one of the Idnet assistants recommended to me is the TP Link VX230 AX1800 and is shown on Idnet's website at £59.99 if you have a 12 month FTTP contract.  The other assistant I spoke to recommended thew TP Link HX220.  I'm frankly confused.

Perhaps it could be said that the advantage of a seperate ATA box is that you can use it with any future router you may find yourself with.  The Idnet supplied Cisco is (OTOH) around £100 and the Grandstream around £66.  I don't know what the advantage is of paying the extra, apart from the Cisco having two FXS ports instead of one.

[stan]

So, what order to do things. I'd like to swap to A+A for my phone line but they can't take it over till I have full fibre broadband. Do I deal with that first then the phone? I don't want to lose my landline number.


I'm 100% certain you must get your FTTP broadband from the supplier first, be that Idnet or AAISP, and have it up and running .... THEN apply to port your landline number to your new supplier.

Apparently if you apply for FTTP and for a number port at the same time ... and if there happens to be some sort of a delay getting your FTTP working .... then your landline will have been disconnected and you'll have no service until it's sorted out because when you apply for FTTP it automatically disconnects the original supplier. That's what I'm told.

[peasblossom]

Thanks, Stan. Just checked availability and I'll have to wait a while before full fibre is go here. Seems odd that any of us here need to as City Fibre are all over the city. You'd think they'd do all they need to top get everything in place if people wished to switch. Or is that too simplistic?

[Simon]

Stan, I'm not expert on these things either.  I have been lead to believe that a DECT phone will connect to the Asus router which IDNet are supplying.  If it doesn't, then they may well be getting it back as I could have continued using my existing router if I still need to get additional phone adapters. 

[Simon]

I've just checked the router myself and indeed, it doesn't appear to have any phone ports, just a couple of USBs.

I'm having a bit of a rant here, but to be honest, the more I think about this, the more inclined I am to give up on it all.

I've got a perfectly good internet connection and phone line as it is. I don't really don't see why I should go through all this fiasco and expense just for the sake of upgrading because bloody BT want us to. 

So, what if I cancel the FTTP installation?  Can I just stay as I am on FTTC, and for how long?  When I'm eventually forced to go VoIP, does that work over FTTC?

[peasblossom]

I've just checked the router myself and indeed, it doesn't appear to have any phone ports, just a couple of USBs.

I'm having a bit of a rant here, but to be honest, the more I think about this, the more inclined I am to give up on it all.

I've got a perfectly good internet connection and phone line as it is. I don't really don't see why I should go through all this fiasco and expense just for the sake of upgrading because bloody BT want us to. 

So, what if I cancel the FTTP installation?  Can I just stay as I am on FTTC, and for how long?  When I'm eventually forced to go VoIP, does that work over FTTC?

Rant away! This is a safe place to vent, I think.

AIUI, VoIP needs FTTP (full fibre to the premises, not 80% fibre then 10% copper = FTTC so only to the exchange cabinet) to work. All caveats, however. Prepared for someone who knows more to say this is incorrect.

[stan]

Simon, I have no clue as to the implications of cancelling an order with Idnet but I know that within my Idnet Customer Portal pages there's a date given when I have to finalise the time spent using a copper pair to receive my internet and phone and move to FTTP. In my case it's December 2025.

Can you recall who advised you go for the Asus router and what the logic attached to it was, and whether there was some sort or reassurance given regarding the Asus having a phone port??  As mentioned my own recommendations were for two other devices, both TP Link but it wasn't inferred that there were any phone ports on them and it was made clear an ATA would be needed to use VOIP telephony if that was what I wanted.

I do recall the cost of the current ADSL based copper pair phone service is to rise, presumably from next renewal. I think it's the line rental that's due to go up. It may be that the monthly running costs of FTTP plus UBOSS is no more than the increased line rental and ADSL arrangement we're both presently using.

I'm not actually convinced that the inconvenience of swapping providers is all that more significant than swapping from ADSL to FTTP and porting the landline number over to VOIP but obviously there's a reassurance of some sort to be had by staying put and keeping our records and payment methods intact.

I need to scratch my head a bit more before putting my head in the lion's mouth. And, by the sound of it so do you.

[zappaDPJ]

When I'm eventually forced to go VoIP, does that work over FTTC?

TLDR:  The phone switchover is not related to the copper/fibre switchover and will happen for many people years before they get fibre.

https://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,34261.msg764420.html#msg764420

I think that answers your question, at least as much as I understand it.

[Simon]

Sorry for the rant, guys.  I just feel that this is effectively being forced upon us, and as such, it should be made easy.  But it isn't. 

I've just checked my initial order and the original install date was 17th Jan.  That's now passed, and OR haven't even installed the outside box yet.  They've made two visits - the first one resulted in them saying the ducts were blocked, and the second one, where they were supposed to have carried out the 'civil works' just resulted in them saying, once again, that the ducts are blocked, and buggering off!

So, I'm no further forwards than I was on 7th December when I placed the order, and now I don't know whether I'm coming or going with the direct debit payments to IDNet, as my annual payment for the old FTTC service is actually due today, but I'd asked to move back to monthly payments as there's no longer a discount incentive to pay annually up front. 

Then there's the phone.  I'd elected to keep my old landline for now, at least until the FTTP was up and running, on the possibly incorrect understanding that my existing DECT phone would connect to my sparkly new router, when the time came to switch to VoIP.  Now it seems this is not the case, so yet more expense will be incurred in purchasing an adapter.  Even if I'd purchased a new VoIP phone from IDNet, would that even have connected directly to the router?  And what about my CallBlocker box and the two satellite phones in other rooms?

I think I'm just getting too old for this s**t! 

[stan]

Simon, I have a little experience of the sort of thing you're experiencing. My neighbour underwent something very similat with Openreach and Plusnet a few months ago.

Openreach's contractors couldn't pass the new fibre cable from the pavement junction box to his house - they said it must be blocked. I won't detail every step of the way but it took many weeks and several visits from different contractors to find out that the pavement area where his car passed over to access his property had collapsed sufficiently to squash the duct, thus stopping them from passing the cable through.  Eventually they had a hole dug in the pavement and repairs were effected and the fibre was installed.

During the process of installing the box on the wall at the front of his house the installer drilled through a central heating pipe and drained his entire system .... this required a heating engineer to fix the pipe and refill the system and a plasterer to repair the wall in his front room.... all paid for by Openreach/Plusnet Additionally the installer damaged brickwork on the outside and they made a payment to my neighbour to compensate for that damage too.

Suffice to say he wasn't best pleased but it all works now.

He reckons Plusnet dealt with it as best they could but he wasn't impressed with the contractors that Openreach used to do the instal.  As it happens it was Openreach who ultimately found the blockage in the pavement and who dug the hole, fixed the problem and reinstated the pavement.

I have heard that Andrews and Arnold are particularly good at pestering Openreach when problems are encountered ... but it's only what I've read - i have no personal experience.

Other neightbours have had FTTC fitted in the past year without issue - one was with BT and another with John Lewis.

I've not had very many encounters with Idnet when it comes to fixing issues but their reputation is good enough to make me think they'd be OK ... but I honestly don't know.  You probably have more experience and I'd have thought they'd have dealt fairly with you.

For sure an expensive new digital VOIP phone would plug straight into a router but they're very expensive and, to my mind, hugely complicated and require configuration processes way beyond my understanding ... hence wanting to keep my existing analogue phones.

What do you mean by call blocker box and satellite phones?

[Simon]

Hi Stan,

I've not had confidence in any of the OR engineers who've visited so far.  My blockage, so they say, has been caused by other providers installing their own cabling in the ducts, making them overly congested.  They're talking about making a new duct under a hedge at the front of the property.  The issue with that is, it's not my hedge so they've got to permission from the estate management company to dig it up.  Not the whole hedge, but enough, presumably, to install a new duct. 

It's then a question of where they fit the external box on my property.  I have elected for them to use an enclosed outside cupboard, where the current phone line enters the property, as it was assumed that this would be the easiest route, given that it's already in place.  Hopefully they could then feed the cables from that point up to the existing phone point in the flat, which is where I want the router installed.

IDNet have confirmed that the new router will support a new VoIP DECT phone, but would require an adapter to support an analogue DECT phone - so yet more expense. 

With regards the CallBlocker, this is a box I have which filters out unwanted spam calls, and can also block other chosen numbers.  I find it very useful. 

https://amzn.eu/d/4wePzF0

By 'satellite' phones, I just mean additional handsets in other rooms to the main phone. 

[stan]

Briefly, Simon ... I can't see how your call blocker will work after a change to VOIP as the old style telephone wall sockets will no longer be in use.

But the satellite phones will of course work if you're using an ATA to plug the old type DECT cordless phone base into. Obviously they won't if you buy a new VOIP phone.

[Simon]

Regretfully, I agree about the CallBlocker, Stan, although, if there's a 'normal' phone socket to connect the DECT phone to the ATA, then maybe I could still connect the CallBlocker between the phone and the ATA, as it's now connected between the phone and the wall socket. 

[stan]

You might be right there, Simon, but I don't know who you might go to to get a definitive answer ... it's so difficult to ring firms now and speak to a human. That's where Idnet and AAISP score brownie points. If you bought the Cisco ATA then that definitely has two FXS ports so presumably you could use the call blocker there as well as your Gigaset cordless analogue phone.

This dialogue has rekindled my thoughts and I'm seriously thinking that I might take the following course of action.

1. Place an order with AAISP for their (Openreach)  'Home1'  Ultrafast, 115 / 20, FTTP plan @ £37 pm inc vat.
2. Wait until it's working, then apply for landline number port to AAISP's VOIP service ~ £1.44 pm (no calls included - calls at 1.5p p min. This will automatically disconnect both the landline number AND the broadband service with Idnet and I'll pay whatever I owe them when billed. I would have to pay AAISP a further £15 porting fee to bring my landline number awy from Idnet, over to AAISP
3. The above mentioned VOIP phone plan with AAISP would tie in with the provision of AAISP's router that they supply for free (although it's not free coz you pay them a £100 installation fee) .... and the router that they supply comes with an inbuilt ATA and has TWO FXS ports into which I would plug in my DECT analogue base station plus my, rather ancient, ATL Berkshire speakerphone.

The upshot of my plan would mean I have a 12 months FTTP contract for Broadband plus retain my landline number and retain the analogue cordless phones round the house albeit there are no free calls, just a £1.44 per month fee to retain the number as a sort of standby facility.

If the WI FI provided by the new router (A Technicolour 4134/5) proved less than optimal I can get the engineer to instal BT Whole Home (ubiquiti) booster to, apparently, make it better. 

The choice between going with either Idnet or AAISP for FTTP is a bit swings and roundabouts ... and it's perfectly possible I may jump on the wrong roundabout.

To be honest there doesn't seem to be very many subscribers to the forum as we speak so I'm thinking there might not be too many further contributors offering further opinions and it looks like it's mainly you and me on this topic butI'd be very happy to remain abreast of your own thinking and developments though.

[Simon]

It's good to share thoughts, Stan.

I had an update today that OR are now due to do the 'civil works' on the 31st, so we will see what transpires next week.

[stan]

Understood, Simon.

In which case as you'll finally get your fibre installed and the pre~configured Asus router connected it'll just remain for you to decide what to do about the landline/VOIP.  Theres not much difference in the cost of the Idnet supplied and configured Cisco ATA and the pre~configured, Idnet supplied, digital VOIP base~set and handst ... but with the former you'll get to keep the additional "satellites" and the call~blocker unit whereas with the latter you just get one, rather advanced and fancy, handset (albeit you'll be able to have it do all sorts of tricks including blocking calls).

Every good wish.

[Simon]

Technically I have I until the end of next year to decide what to do about the landline.  I'll probably just wait and see what other options may emerge by then.

[Postal]

This dialogue has rekindled my thoughts and I'm seriously thinking that I might take the following course of action.

1. Place an order with AAISP for their (Openreach)  'Home1'  Ultrafast, 115 / 20, FTTP plan @ £37 pm inc vat.
2. Wait until it's working, then apply for landline number port to AAISP's VOIP service ~ £1.44 pm (no calls included - calls at 1.5p p min. This will automatically disconnect both the landline number AND the broadband service with Idnet and I'll pay whatever I owe them when billed. I would have to pay AAISP a further £15 porting fee to bring my landline number awy from Idnet, over to AAISP
3. The above mentioned VOIP phone plan with AAISP would tie in with the provision of AAISP's router that they supply for free (although it's not free coz you pay them a £100 installation fee) .... and the router that they supply comes with an inbuilt ATA and has TWO FXS ports into which I would plug in my DECT analogue base station plus my, rather ancient, ATL Berkshire speakerphone.

Lots of discussion on other sites as well as here and the consensus is that those three steps represent the most sensible sort of process (using ISPs/VoIP providers of your choice and not necessarily IDNet and A&A).  Caveat that I claim no expertise beyond taking in a lot of information from around the net.

[stan]

All received, Postal. Ta.

[Clive]

My new provider contacted IDNet to inform them I wished to port my landline company to them and it was up and running as soon as my FTTP was installed.  The phone fits into the back of the new router so there would be no problem if I wanted to reconnect my call blocker which an over enthusiastic BT engineer removed when I had dropouts some time ago.  Left to my own devices I'd reinstall it but SWAMBO would not be happy about it.  If IDNet ever provide FTTP in the west I will be back with them in a heartbeat.

[Simon]

I've just noticed IDNet have a TP-Link VX230v router 'in testing', which does appear to have a phone port.  I may see if I can swap the Asus router I've ordered for this one, depending on cost.

[stan]

I've just noticed IDNet have a TP-Link VX230v router 'in testing', which does appear to have a phone port.  I may see if I can swap the Asus router I've ordered for this one, depending on cost.

See my reply in the other thread.

[stan]

My new provider contacted IDNet to inform them I wished to port my landline company to them and it was up and running as soon as my FTTP was installed.  The phone fits into the back of the new router so there would be no problem if I wanted to reconnect my call blocker which an over enthusiastic BT engineer removed when I had dropouts some time ago.  Left to my own devices I'd reinstall it but SWAMBO would not be happy about it.  If IDNet ever provide FTTP in the west I will be back with them in a heartbeat.

Who is your new supplier, Clive?

Roughly wherabouts are you? I'm in Devon and Idnet is readily available and FTTP becamwe available last  year. Quite a few have taken up FTTP (you can tell by the new grey box on the front of the houses.)

What is your router?

[NigelC]

I've just noticed IDNet have a TP-Link VX230v router 'in testing', which does appear to have a phone port.  I may see if I can swap the Asus router I've ordered for this one, depending on cost.

I have one of the TP-Link VX230v routers on a Fibre connection, router supplied by IDNet as part of a copper-to-fibre upgrade. 
My fibre went live in early January, with the phone continuing on copper (deliberately arranged to be sequential changes).   The VOIP swap was yesterday (my PSTN went off).  Needed some support emails to IDNet for them to alter the settings in the Router to make Voip work - their final changes happened earlier today.   
If concerned about loss of inbound calls,  ask IDNet to initially set up the VOIP with call-forwarding to a mobile number.   Thus any inbound calls are not lost.  Then see if the VOIP is working at the router to make outbound calls.  Once working, ask for (or DIY) removal of the call-forwarding. 


I have a old PSTN DECT base station/answering machine plugged into the socket on rear of VX230v.   That is able to make outbound and receive inbound calls from the UBOSS Voip service - tested this morning to and from a couple of mobile phones numbers. 
 

I intend to use the existing house "phone extensions" as it means the phone base unit can go where its more useful.  I'll ensure the phone extensions are fully disconnected from the old BT PSTN line (which still has volts for dial tone on it).   
Bodge method is to just pull the consumer "half face plate" out from the BT master socket, and connect to the dangling consumer plate (my extensions are correctly wired into the rear of the consumer plate).   Medium term is a neater socket arrangement, or pull the BT copper wires from the back of the BT master socket.   


Hope that helps with questions around the VX230v.


Nigel
(fairly long term IDNet domestic customer)

[Simon]

Thanks Nigel, that's useful to know. 

I'd be interested if you could let us know how you find the router in general, ie, how good is the Wi-Fi coverage and are you getting generally good speeds?

Also, you mentioned IDNet altering settings at their end for the VoIP.  Is that the case in general that they have to amend any telephone settings, such as call forwarding?

I ask, because the friends of mine who are already on VoIP seem to be relying on their ISP to set up call forwarding services, and such.  Is it not just a simple code, like it used to be?

[NigelC]

Thanks Nigel, that's useful to know. 

I'd be interested if you could let us know how you find the router in general, ie, how good is the Wi-Fi coverage and are you getting generally good speeds?

Router itself, very good.   I had to push IDNet to give me the admin password for it, so I could configure the domestic Wifi. 

300Mb/s reported on WiFi devices - at least the newer ones which can do both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. 
I have a (some years old) TP-Link ethernet-over-mains device which gives 1Gb/s ethernet to other end of house, the WiFi device at far end has same SSID/password as the router(*), and between them I have what appears to be seemless handover of WiFi if I walk around the house with a mobile phone.   

My previous router's WiFi would struggle through some of the walls in the house, notably into the garage/workshop which has foil-layer insulation.   


(*  it was far less faff to change the router to match my old SSID/password compared to changing all the devices in the house.  ). 



Internet connection is fast, but I've moved from 14Mb/s+1Mb/s on ADSL, so anything would seem fast.   
Speed tests say its over 110Mb/s down, and just over 20Mb/s up.     
Larger downloads (eg. podcast audio, software install files) are clearly massively quicker.   

Also, you mentioned IDNet altering settings at their end for the VoIP.  Is that the case in general that they have to amend any telephone settings, such as call forwarding?

I ask, because the friends of mine who are already on VoIP seem to be relying on their ISP to set up call forwarding services, and such.  Is it not just a simple code, like it used to be?

Don't know about that.   Our need for the phone is very basic and traditional.   

There are settings in the router for call forwarding rules, but no idea if that's where such settings should be made.  Or if its done on a website, or done by keys on a phone handset (like PSTN features).    As the "phone number" inside the router is a letter-number string, it doesn't look like an old-style PSTN number, so I've little idea what to set.     
The lack of a user-manual or help page for Voip features is somewhat of an omission by IDnet. 



Nigel

[Simon]

Thanks Nigel.

Still quite a bit to learn.  I hope IDNet give me the router admin password as I'll need to set it up for my TP-Link mesh extenders, and like yourself, I'd rather change the WiFi settings on the router, than have to change multiple devices. 

[NigelC]

Thanks Nigel.

Still quite a bit to learn.  I hope IDNet give me the router admin password as I'll need to set it up for my TP-Link mesh extenders, and like yourself, I'd rather change the WiFi settings on the router, than have to change multiple devices.

As you're paying for the router, its yours, so IDNet should give you the password.    Much of my "pushing" was that they initially gave me duff information which might be correct for other devices.   But once I got it the right details, the setup for WiFi was simple. 

If you have mesh network, then I'd hope you see something similar to what I get.   

[Simon]

The mesh system works well with my current Asus router on FTTC. 

[stan]

I spoke, again, today, to a technician in the technical department of a certain ISP who's name I won't repeat further. I called again to try to satisy myself about the router I should go with if/when I place an order with them.

I was torn between two basic routes to go down .....  plan (a) = opt for Idnet FTTP and buy from them a decent, mid range, ASUS configured  router for somewhere between £100 and £200 ... then further buy a suitably configured ATA (Grandstream or Cisco) to plug the existing PSTN devices (the existing analogue phones) into for VOIP. The uncertainties in my mind could easily include which router to choose and which ATA and will I be able to get them successfully configured and working and will the range of the router extend to the other rooms in the house to provide service on things like the TV's, laptop, mobile phones etc. ??

I think plan (b) could be to substitute the ATA for a proper, digital VOIP phone, either desk type or rcordless. Them phones on the Idnet website aren't cheap.

And maybe plan (c) would be to go to the alternative ISP that I may, possibly, have mentioned, for their basic FTTP plan, plus buy their Technicolour router which has two FXS ports in which to plug the two existing analogue phones and additionally subscribe to their £1.40 a month VOIP service and, again, hope the wi fi range is good enough. There is an option to upgrade to a DGA 41434 router for an extra £30 - I would do that.  I understand that there are several options to extend the range using a second router as an Access Point, or buy something like Ubiquiti or Linksys extenders or Mesh systems. Apparently they are compatible with all the router options I've mentioned.

Of possible interest to Simon I would go on to say - the technician said to me ..... it would probably be better to plug the phones into the FXS ports of a router rather than use an ATA as there is apparently increased scope for issues if using the ATA compared to using the router with the ports built in. He did give a cursory technical reason for this but he lost me a bit and I've forgotten. He further observed that as his company configures, issues and supports the Technocolour router there's a greater likelihood of a smooth transition from ADSL to FTTP and the associated VOIP provision.  I believe Simon has settled on the TP Link router with a built in phone port and the router would be configured and supported by Idnet so, hopefully, will have a better chance of  a smooth changeover.

[Simon]

Yes, I think that's the way I'm going, Stan, but I'm not actually planning on moving to VoIP immediately.  I want to get the FTTP broadband up and running before embarking on a further technical journey with the phones. 

One point I'd suggest you clarify - the two FXS ports on the Technicolour router - would they work for two phones on the same phone number, or are they for two separate 'lines', so to speak in 'old fashioned' terms?

[stan]

Yes, that's a good point.  I think I've seen that very point spoken about but I can't remember what the outcome was.  I'll have a pole around and see if the answer is on the internet

I do think that whatever hapens, Simon, it's considered almost obligatory to wait until the FTTP in working before requesting a port of landline number to VOIP.  This is considered the safest route - they say if there was a hitch or delay in the FTTP going live on the due date AND you'd arranged for the landline port on the same day then you'd be without both services for an indeterminate length of time.

Any updates for your installation?

[peasblossom]

I do think that whatever happens, Simon, it's considered almost obligatory to wait until the FTTP in working before requesting a port of landline number to VOIP.  This is considered the safest route - they say if there was a hitch or delay in the FTTP going live on the due date AND you'd arranged for the landline port on the same day then you'd be without both services for an indeterminate length of time.

Thanks for that. Something to remember when I switch. (Which won't be for a while yet.)

[stan]

Yes, I think that's the way I'm going, Stan, but I'm not actually planning on moving to VoIP immediately.  I want to get the FTTP broadband up and running before embarking on a further technical journey with the phones. 

One point I'd suggest you clarify - the two FXS ports on the Technicolour router - would they work for two phones on the same phone number, or are they for two separate 'lines', so to speak in 'old fashioned' terms?

[/color]

As I said, that's a very pertinent query you raise and caused me to have a good look online to see if there is any reference and literally just one sentence comes close.  It is a technical document published on AAISP's website. I show below the link but the sentence in question reads :-

The VoIP account should now be registered and calls will work by using any of the two analogue telephone ports on the router.

https://support.aa.net.uk/DGA0122_VoIP

[Simon]

Any updates for your installation?

The men with spades never showed up today, so I'm not sure what's supposed to be happening.  Guess I'll have to email IDNet again if they don't turn up in the morning. 

Following on from what Nigel said upthread, I'm reconsidering where I want the external box fitted, so I really need to catch these guys while they're here, but equally, I can't just sit in all day without knowing when they're coming.

[Simon]

The VoIP account should now be registered and calls will work by using any of the two analogue telephone ports on the router.

https://support.aa.net.uk/DGA0122_VoIP

I think it's a totally different way of thinking with this VoIP malarkey.  My friend had two separate business phone lines, with two separate phones, both of which now connect to his Technicolour router with new VoIP phones.  You can ring either of his numbers and both phones will ring, but if one phone is engaged, then the other will ring.  It seems very weird.

[Postal]

I think it's a totally different way of thinking with this VoIP malarkey.  My friend had two separate business phone lines, with two separate phones, both of which now connect to his Technicolour router with new VoIP phones.  You can ring either of his numbers and both phones will ring, but if one phone is engaged, then the other will ring.  It seems very weird.

Indeed a different way of thinking.  Depending on your VoIP provider you may be able to arrange to have your mobile on the same VoIP "circuit" so that your mobile will also ring when a call is received on your household phone; a lot more flexibility in your telecoms arrangements which will change the mindset.  The trouble is that most of us who are exercised about this are of the generation where everything was done on the landline (who remembers making long distance calls in the afternoon as it was cheaper than making the same call in the morning?) and there is a lot of old dog and new tricks here.

[stan]

I've tried to keep up with the points raised here and on some other forums and only managed to grasp an overview. It seems the vast majority of contributors on most forums of this nature are better versed than I.

Even when I called AAISP although the tech. fella on the technical phone line was an absolute star - patient, kind and well versed, tended to lapse into jargon - speak and I needed to ask him to explain the terms and acronyms he was using.

I (and perhaps Simon) are trying to keep up but it'sincreasingly the case that the world is leaving us behind.  Luckily forums like this have people who can understasnd this and do their best to have some techo-empathy. And we're grateful!

[Simon]

I don't know about 'trying to keep up' - I'm being dragged along out of necessity! 

[Clive]

My new provider told me that I needed to inform IDNet that I wanted to port my existing number otherwise I would lose it.  In actual fact the two providers sorted it out among themselves without input from myself.  The switch was very smooth with no discernable downtime.  If you are worried about being offline then you can keep FTTC and FTTP for an extra month as they are totally different systems. 

[Simon]

IDNet have assured me they won't disconnect my current service until the FTTP is up and running.

[NigelC]

IDNet have assured me they won't disconnect my current service until the FTTP is up and running.

That was what happened with me.   The old "copper wire" service was live for several weeks after the FTTP went live.   I could, had I wanted to, have my old router and 14Mb+1Mb service over copper in addition to my new FTTP service.   We were using the old PSTN telephone for inbound and outbound calls during that period. 

The action of "number porting" leads to the "cease" being applied to the copper line.   That happened as the VOIP began.    Now, whilst there is dial-tone volts on the copper line, there is no ability to make calls (ie. no service). 


To deal with phone extensions around the house, I've done the following:
1)  rear of BT Master Socket for the copper wire, I cut the two BT wires coming in.  I cut them so there is a trace of the old colour still screwed to the socket, should (very unlikely!) there be a need to reconnect at some point in the future: the relevant colours of wires are easy to spot.
2)  My BT master socket has a broadband filter faceplate on it, and the faceplate has the wiring for all the phone extensions around the house (correct way to wire PSTN extensions).  I couldn't find the old original BT faceplate (must be kicking around somewhere!), so the filter one stays for now.   
3)  From the handset (VOIP) socket on the new router, a wire plugged into the master socket faceplate.  Doesn't matter if this is via the filter because they split the broadband noise from the 3khz voice frequencies, so the voice passes through either side.     
4)  Existing extensions in the house now connected to the VOIP socket, and handsets can make/receive calls.   (In our case, one extension with a DECT base station and several DECT handsets, and another with a fixed line phone). 

I don't know the REN number equivalent for the VOIP handset socket, that would set the maximum number of handsets on extensions.   



I'm still on the lookout for an end-user guide to operating the Voip service.  How does the user setup call-forwarding ?  Voicemail ?   etc..  With the old PSTN system, there was a set of phone key-pad sequences to set up all services. 


- Nigel

[Simon]

I'm still on the lookout for an end-user guide to operating the Voip service.  How does the user setup call-forwarding ?  Voicemail ?   etc..  With the old PSTN system, there was a set of phone key-pad sequences to set up all services.

I was wondering that myself.  On a proper VoIP phone it's all in the menu settings, but of course, a conventional DECT phone won't have those same settings. 

Just a thought - given (I assume) the router handles the calls, could there be something in the router settings?

I was also wondering another thing, and that is, if you have Call Forwarding activated on a VoIP service, will the calls still be forwarded in the event of a power outage?

I have a Siemens Gigaset base station with two additional handsets.  Obviously the 'satellite' handsets work without being connected to a phone socket, so I don't think I would have a need to play with my old phone wiring when I switch, to make the extensions work. 

[stan]

I'm guessing Openreach haven't been today, Simon?

There were a few mentions about setting up things like call forwarding if you continue to use your own phones (plugged into the TP Link).

You won't be at all surprised that I don't know the answer but I am reasonably well aware that the other ISP that I won't mention has stuff published on its web pages.  I believe they call their technical information something like "Control Pages" - and I do know that, regarding answerphone messages, they have the facility for callers to your number to leave a message and for that message to then be sent to your email.  Obviously you need to know how to turn that on and off by means of a setting or somesuch and one would hope it's not too complicated.

And regarding getting the password or configuration information from Idnet in order to get your stuff working - both the ISPs that have been mentiond (Idnet and the other one) have been 100% sure that they will give the customer the details fo configure their own gear. One of them even said the other day that if I give them the name and some sort of identification of my own locally based tech fella who would help me get stuff up and running they would make a note of it and then happily speak to him on the phone regarding whatever configuration details he needed.

I have, this very morning, figured out how to run an ethernet cable from the room where my PC is sited - all the way to the loft. I don't know if it's the done thing to instal a second router or some other type of extender or mesh device in the loft to act as a sort of wi fi booster (I believe it might be called an Access Point but could be wrong.  But the installation of a cable is apparently a major benefit over wi fi if you're having trouble making it reach the parts other routers can't reach.

Does any clever bod know whether we run CAT 5 or CAT 5E or CAT 6 ethernet cables these days? And if there's good and bad cable to buy or if you have to have external spec cable if you run some of it outside?

[NigelC]

.....
I have, this very morning, figured out how to run an ethernet cable from the room where my PC is sited - all the way to the loft. I don't know if it's the done thing to instal a second router or some other type of extender or mesh device in the loft to act as a sort of wi fi booster (I believe it might be called an Access Point but could be wrong.  But the installation of a cable is apparently a major benefit over wi fi if you're having trouble making it reach the parts other routers can't reach.

Does any clever bod know whether we run CAT 5 or CAT 5E or CAT 6 ethernet cables these days? And if there's good and bad cable to buy or if you have to have external spec cable if you run some of it outside?

If you attach a WiFi Access Point to your ethernet cable, with the Access Point getting its DHCP allocation from the main router (thus its the main router which is deciding which device gets which IP address), and set the new Access Point to use same SSID name/password as main router.    Then you've built an extended WiFi network;  your devices will select the strongest signal as you move around the house.      (Its essentially how my house is wired). 
The cable solution is better than a "mesh" product, but has the hassle of installing a cables. 

( Sometimes an old broadband router can be configured to act as an ethernet WiFi access point as above.  It depends on router, but might mean a solution is possible with old-free kit.). 


Cable types:   "outdoor" spec cables are usually more stable from light and movement. Cat-5 isn't fast enough (100Mb/s),  use 5e or 6.  They are, essentially, similar for domestic use at 1Gb.   6 is officially capable of a little faster (10Gb over shorter runs), but there's not much domestic stuff which goes faster than 1Gb.    The quality of the crimping at the ends is significant, particularly if fitting own plugs/sockets. 


Nigel

[stan]

Thank you, Nigel. You've covered several points for me there.

When I do take the plunge and get FTTP (which is getting closer now) and get the new router (probably the Technicolour 4134 I'll know wherther we need some form of extender to serve upstairs.  I will, obviosly enough, have the Billion 8800 AXL R2 as a spare router and could, perhaps, use that as (what I believe is called) an Access Point upstairs - attached to the ethernet cable that I'd run up there.

Thanks again.

[stan]

A bit out of the blue ... although not entirely off topic ..... if I do run an ethernet cable from my new router (when it comes) to feed my old Billion router upstairs - or in fact any hard wired booster / extender device  .... it would be 99% indoors except for a couple of metres tucked out of sight behind a rainwater down pipe and another 5 metres pinned to the outside wall of the house ( semi sheltered but admittedly exposed to a bit of sun and rain.

Now to my question :-  I can see you can buy CAT 5E and CAT 6 ethernet cable on 50 and 100 metre drums (I'll check to see which I need) and I can see you can buy external and internal. You can buy copper or, cheaper, copper covered aluminium.

If you search the net a million people tell you CAT 5e is good enough for up to 1 gig (which is way more than enough for me) and is also easier to handle. a further million people will say you need to future proof yourself and get CAT 6.

And let's not forget shielded or unshielded! That confuses me quite a bit.

Not to mention stranded or solid conductors.Although I've worked out that solid is better than stranded for my long permanent run.

It does seem important though to get the right option regarding internal and external I admit I'm especially unsure about that.

Furthermore there six million places selling countless different makes. I've seen Kenable widely sold plus Toolstation do Pitacs albeit not external.

There's Cable Monkey and theres a gazillion other names that mean nothing to me.

There .... I reckon I've convinced you people that the world genuinely is a confusing place to be

[Simon]

I've told you a quadrillion times not to exaggerate, Stan. 

[stan]

It's a good job we can laugh about these things, Simon, otherwise we'd all become boring old farts just waiting for nurse to come round with the medication trolley.

Oh, hold on a minute ......

[zappaDPJ]

For what it's worth I use https://www.designacable.com for all my cable requirements. They won't be the cheapest but their cables are second to none in quality plus they cater for custom requirements. I've bought literally hundreds of cables from them including multiple CAT6 RJ45 cables and never had a single failure.

[stan]

Very many thanks.

[peasblossom]

While not quite as specialised, this lot are useful.

https://www.bcedirect.co.uk/

[stan]

Ta muchly.

[NigelC]

Cable -  unless budget is extremely tight, buy copper throughout.   
Copper coated aluminium is the cause of all sorts of issues in networks - they usually happen when something done is "out of spec", domestically that's moderately likely.  Even things like the exact type IDC connection can matter.   

Solid vs stranded depends on installation.  If its never going to move (pinned to a wall, going into wall mounted socket plates), then solid is OK.  Solid will be fine for initial shaping, but not take kindly to constant re-shaping.    If it is going to move (when cleaning, or moving something on a table/shelf), then stranded wire. 
The short lengths "outside" could be shielded against wear with a little bit of trunking, perhaps with a cap on the ends to give a bit more protection. 


The usual spec for ethernet would allow this arrangement:
Router socket -  RJ45 plug flexible cable to RJ45 plug - Wall socket with cable (no joints within cable) to another Wall socket - RJ45 plug flexible cable to RJ45 plug - into socket on device (such as second WiFi access point).   

[stan]

Super job. I'll sit and study and relate that to what is advertised for sale. Budget not an issue, more concerned to get it right. Any recommended makes or makes to avoid and lastly it looks like external cable not essential. Is external harder to form bends with?

Much appreciated.

[NigelC]

I'm still on the lookout for an end-user guide to operating the Voip service.  How does the user setup call-forwarding ?  Voicemail ?   etc..  With the old PSTN system, there was a set of phone key-pad sequences to set up all services. 

My sent-at-weekend email to Idnet Support resulted in a clear set of instructions for the VOIP service.
   
It uses key-pad codes to set up and change diversion, answerphone, remote-access answerphone, etc.. (like PSTN, but detailed difference in codes).

Not tried any yet, but will print them out and try a few when I've time for faffing. 


- Nigel

[Simon]

Brilliant, thanks Nigel, that will be very useful. 

[nowster]

One problem with using an ATA is that you'll have to set up the various phone tones (dial tone, ringing, engaged) if you don't want them to sound like you're in the USA.

The more insidious one is that the US phone system has different impedance characteristics than the UK one, and if you don't correct this on the ATA it can cause echo problems for anyone who calls you.

[Simon]

It's just one problem after another, isn't it?

[Simon]

Can anyone who's got VoIP (Uboss) set up with a standard DECT phone (Gigaset) please confirm that caller ID still works both ways?

I now have my Fibre Broadband up and running with a TP-Link VX230v router (with FXS port), so now I'm contemplating when to switch to VoIP.  There are various telephony settings in the router for call blocking, forwarding, etc, but it seems I would need to access these via the router interface each time, rather than with MMI codes via the handset. 

Also, it doesn't look like my existing CPR Call Blocker would work, as it relies on power from the PSTN phone socket.

[dudwell]

I have VoIP (Uboss) and caller ID works both ways with my Panasonic DECT phone.

[Simon]

Excellent, thanks Dud. 

[Ray]

Anyone who has Uboss VOIP how long did it take to get set up? mine was supposed to be active on the 18th of April - I'm still waiting! 

[dudwell]

I think it happened on the promised date though I didn't receive any message. I found out only the next day when my daughter tried to phone me. She obtained a ringing tone but I heard nothing. Fearing I might have expired, she WhatsApped and I realised the changeover must have happened. I switched plug from BT mastersocket to TP-Link router and found phone was working. We exchanged test calls to check.

Incidentally I have found call volume to be louder with VoIP while audio quality is excellent.

[Simon]

Anyone who has Uboss VOIP how long did it take to get set up? mine was supposed to be active on the 18th of April - I'm still waiting! 

I was told around five days, Ray.  I guess they need time to port the number.  I asked, just in case I was left without the landline after the FTTP installation, but it's all fine and I still have a landline in two rooms. 

[Ray]

 Now up and running and working fine, the only oddity is that Idnet have to provide a string of letters to enter into the phone number field in the router Telephone setup, if you enter your phone number it doesn't work! strange! 

[Simon]

Presumably people calling you from within the same old STD code would now have to dial the whole number, instead of just the local number?

I'm still debating with myself on whether or when to do the swap.  Part of me wants to just get it all done and dusted, and it would also be cheaper in the long run, but another part is still apprehensive.

[nowster]

Presumably people calling you from within the same old STD code would now have to dial the whole number, instead of just the local number?

Depends where they're calling from. If they're still on a landline, local calling should still work. Londoners haven't got local calling (with 8 digit local numbers) into their heads anyway.

Calling out from VoIP depends on how the dialling rules are set up. It's possible to implement local calling as a mapping (eg. any 6 digit number that doesn't start with 0 or 1 gets expanded to the full number).

[Simon]

There are lots of telephony settings within the router which I could probably get myself in a total mess with. 

[Postal]

Presumably people calling you from within the same old STD code would now have to dial the whole number, instead of just the local number?

That is probably going to happen on the existing landline network as well as the IP based services (for as long as that network is still there).  OfCOM published a paper in March 2022 (https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/233745/Future-of-Numbering-Statement-on-geographic-numbering.pdf) signposting the route.  IIRC BT have already trialled it (Bournemouth is an exchange which took part in the first trial).

[Simon]

So, I've been looking at the UBOSS service in more detail, and it seems from the information on IDNet, Call Blocking / Barring is not available, and neither is the option to withhold your number when calling.   Both of these functions are listed under the Centrix service, but not under UBOSS.  This is a bit of a concern as I have always relied on both of these features. 

[nowster]

IIRC BT have already trialled it (Bournemouth is an exchange which took part in the first trial).

That's because they've run out of numbers in that code and will have started to use 0 or 1 as the start of the local number, meaning the exchange can't tell if you're doing local dialling, dialling a short code (eg. 17070), or an STD code without applying a timeout.

eg. a number like 01202 123456 or 01202 012020.

There have been "shadow" numbers with local parts starting with 0 and 1 since the 1990s at least, eg. 0161-0xx xxxx, usually used as the physical destinations of 0800 or similar numbers.