New UBOSS VOIP service in addition to CENTREX

[NigelC]

Thanks Nigel, that's useful to know. 

I'd be interested if you could let us know how you find the router in general, ie, how good is the Wi-Fi coverage and are you getting generally good speeds?

Router itself, very good.   I had to push IDNet to give me the admin password for it, so I could configure the domestic Wifi. 

300Mb/s reported on WiFi devices - at least the newer ones which can do both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. 
I have a (some years old) TP-Link ethernet-over-mains device which gives 1Gb/s ethernet to other end of house, the WiFi device at far end has same SSID/password as the router(*), and between them I have what appears to be seemless handover of WiFi if I walk around the house with a mobile phone.   

My previous router's WiFi would struggle through some of the walls in the house, notably into the garage/workshop which has foil-layer insulation.   


(*  it was far less faff to change the router to match my old SSID/password compared to changing all the devices in the house.  ). 



Internet connection is fast, but I've moved from 14Mb/s+1Mb/s on ADSL, so anything would seem fast.   
Speed tests say its over 110Mb/s down, and just over 20Mb/s up.     
Larger downloads (eg. podcast audio, software install files) are clearly massively quicker.   

Also, you mentioned IDNet altering settings at their end for the VoIP.  Is that the case in general that they have to amend any telephone settings, such as call forwarding?

I ask, because the friends of mine who are already on VoIP seem to be relying on their ISP to set up call forwarding services, and such.  Is it not just a simple code, like it used to be?

Don't know about that.   Our need for the phone is very basic and traditional.   

There are settings in the router for call forwarding rules, but no idea if that's where such settings should be made.  Or if its done on a website, or done by keys on a phone handset (like PSTN features).    As the "phone number" inside the router is a letter-number string, it doesn't look like an old-style PSTN number, so I've little idea what to set.     
The lack of a user-manual or help page for Voip features is somewhat of an omission by IDnet. 



Nigel

[Simon]

Thanks Nigel.

Still quite a bit to learn.  I hope IDNet give me the router admin password as I'll need to set it up for my TP-Link mesh extenders, and like yourself, I'd rather change the WiFi settings on the router, than have to change multiple devices. 

[NigelC]

Thanks Nigel.

Still quite a bit to learn.  I hope IDNet give me the router admin password as I'll need to set it up for my TP-Link mesh extenders, and like yourself, I'd rather change the WiFi settings on the router, than have to change multiple devices.

As you're paying for the router, its yours, so IDNet should give you the password.    Much of my "pushing" was that they initially gave me duff information which might be correct for other devices.   But once I got it the right details, the setup for WiFi was simple. 

If you have mesh network, then I'd hope you see something similar to what I get.   

[Simon]

The mesh system works well with my current Asus router on FTTC. 

[stan]

I spoke, again, today, to a technician in the technical department of a certain ISP who's name I won't repeat further. I called again to try to satisy myself about the router I should go with if/when I place an order with them.

I was torn between two basic routes to go down .....  plan (a) = opt for Idnet FTTP and buy from them a decent, mid range, ASUS configured  router for somewhere between £100 and £200 ... then further buy a suitably configured ATA (Grandstream or Cisco) to plug the existing PSTN devices (the existing analogue phones) into for VOIP. The uncertainties in my mind could easily include which router to choose and which ATA and will I be able to get them successfully configured and working and will the range of the router extend to the other rooms in the house to provide service on things like the TV's, laptop, mobile phones etc. ??

I think plan (b) could be to substitute the ATA for a proper, digital VOIP phone, either desk type or rcordless. Them phones on the Idnet website aren't cheap.

And maybe plan (c) would be to go to the alternative ISP that I may, possibly, have mentioned, for their basic FTTP plan, plus buy their Technicolour router which has two FXS ports in which to plug the two existing analogue phones and additionally subscribe to their £1.40 a month VOIP service and, again, hope the wi fi range is good enough. There is an option to upgrade to a DGA 41434 router for an extra £30 - I would do that.  I understand that there are several options to extend the range using a second router as an Access Point, or buy something like Ubiquiti or Linksys extenders or Mesh systems. Apparently they are compatible with all the router options I've mentioned.

Of possible interest to Simon I would go on to say - the technician said to me ..... it would probably be better to plug the phones into the FXS ports of a router rather than use an ATA as there is apparently increased scope for issues if using the ATA compared to using the router with the ports built in. He did give a cursory technical reason for this but he lost me a bit and I've forgotten. He further observed that as his company configures, issues and supports the Technocolour router there's a greater likelihood of a smooth transition from ADSL to FTTP and the associated VOIP provision.  I believe Simon has settled on the TP Link router with a built in phone port and the router would be configured and supported by Idnet so, hopefully, will have a better chance of  a smooth changeover.

[Simon]

Yes, I think that's the way I'm going, Stan, but I'm not actually planning on moving to VoIP immediately.  I want to get the FTTP broadband up and running before embarking on a further technical journey with the phones. 

One point I'd suggest you clarify - the two FXS ports on the Technicolour router - would they work for two phones on the same phone number, or are they for two separate 'lines', so to speak in 'old fashioned' terms?

[stan]

Yes, that's a good point.  I think I've seen that very point spoken about but I can't remember what the outcome was.  I'll have a pole around and see if the answer is on the internet

I do think that whatever hapens, Simon, it's considered almost obligatory to wait until the FTTP in working before requesting a port of landline number to VOIP.  This is considered the safest route - they say if there was a hitch or delay in the FTTP going live on the due date AND you'd arranged for the landline port on the same day then you'd be without both services for an indeterminate length of time.

Any updates for your installation?

[peasblossom]

I do think that whatever happens, Simon, it's considered almost obligatory to wait until the FTTP in working before requesting a port of landline number to VOIP.  This is considered the safest route - they say if there was a hitch or delay in the FTTP going live on the due date AND you'd arranged for the landline port on the same day then you'd be without both services for an indeterminate length of time.

Thanks for that. Something to remember when I switch. (Which won't be for a while yet.)

[stan]

Yes, I think that's the way I'm going, Stan, but I'm not actually planning on moving to VoIP immediately.  I want to get the FTTP broadband up and running before embarking on a further technical journey with the phones. 

One point I'd suggest you clarify - the two FXS ports on the Technicolour router - would they work for two phones on the same phone number, or are they for two separate 'lines', so to speak in 'old fashioned' terms?

[/color]

As I said, that's a very pertinent query you raise and caused me to have a good look online to see if there is any reference and literally just one sentence comes close.  It is a technical document published on AAISP's website. I show below the link but the sentence in question reads :-

The VoIP account should now be registered and calls will work by using any of the two analogue telephone ports on the router.

https://support.aa.net.uk/DGA0122_VoIP

[Simon]

Any updates for your installation?

The men with spades never showed up today, so I'm not sure what's supposed to be happening.  Guess I'll have to email IDNet again if they don't turn up in the morning. 

Following on from what Nigel said upthread, I'm reconsidering where I want the external box fitted, so I really need to catch these guys while they're here, but equally, I can't just sit in all day without knowing when they're coming.

[Simon]

The VoIP account should now be registered and calls will work by using any of the two analogue telephone ports on the router.

https://support.aa.net.uk/DGA0122_VoIP

I think it's a totally different way of thinking with this VoIP malarkey.  My friend had two separate business phone lines, with two separate phones, both of which now connect to his Technicolour router with new VoIP phones.  You can ring either of his numbers and both phones will ring, but if one phone is engaged, then the other will ring.  It seems very weird.

[Postal]

I think it's a totally different way of thinking with this VoIP malarkey.  My friend had two separate business phone lines, with two separate phones, both of which now connect to his Technicolour router with new VoIP phones.  You can ring either of his numbers and both phones will ring, but if one phone is engaged, then the other will ring.  It seems very weird.

Indeed a different way of thinking.  Depending on your VoIP provider you may be able to arrange to have your mobile on the same VoIP "circuit" so that your mobile will also ring when a call is received on your household phone; a lot more flexibility in your telecoms arrangements which will change the mindset.  The trouble is that most of us who are exercised about this are of the generation where everything was done on the landline (who remembers making long distance calls in the afternoon as it was cheaper than making the same call in the morning?) and there is a lot of old dog and new tricks here.

[stan]

I've tried to keep up with the points raised here and on some other forums and only managed to grasp an overview. It seems the vast majority of contributors on most forums of this nature are better versed than I.

Even when I called AAISP although the tech. fella on the technical phone line was an absolute star - patient, kind and well versed, tended to lapse into jargon - speak and I needed to ask him to explain the terms and acronyms he was using.

I (and perhaps Simon) are trying to keep up but it'sincreasingly the case that the world is leaving us behind.  Luckily forums like this have people who can understasnd this and do their best to have some techo-empathy. And we're grateful!

[Simon]

I don't know about 'trying to keep up' - I'm being dragged along out of necessity! 

[Clive]

My new provider told me that I needed to inform IDNet that I wanted to port my existing number otherwise I would lose it.  In actual fact the two providers sorted it out among themselves without input from myself.  The switch was very smooth with no discernable downtime.  If you are worried about being offline then you can keep FTTC and FTTP for an extra month as they are totally different systems. 

[Simon]

IDNet have assured me they won't disconnect my current service until the FTTP is up and running.

[NigelC]

IDNet have assured me they won't disconnect my current service until the FTTP is up and running.

That was what happened with me.   The old "copper wire" service was live for several weeks after the FTTP went live.   I could, had I wanted to, have my old router and 14Mb+1Mb service over copper in addition to my new FTTP service.   We were using the old PSTN telephone for inbound and outbound calls during that period. 

The action of "number porting" leads to the "cease" being applied to the copper line.   That happened as the VOIP began.    Now, whilst there is dial-tone volts on the copper line, there is no ability to make calls (ie. no service). 


To deal with phone extensions around the house, I've done the following:
1)  rear of BT Master Socket for the copper wire, I cut the two BT wires coming in.  I cut them so there is a trace of the old colour still screwed to the socket, should (very unlikely!) there be a need to reconnect at some point in the future: the relevant colours of wires are easy to spot.
2)  My BT master socket has a broadband filter faceplate on it, and the faceplate has the wiring for all the phone extensions around the house (correct way to wire PSTN extensions).  I couldn't find the old original BT faceplate (must be kicking around somewhere!), so the filter one stays for now.   
3)  From the handset (VOIP) socket on the new router, a wire plugged into the master socket faceplate.  Doesn't matter if this is via the filter because they split the broadband noise from the 3khz voice frequencies, so the voice passes through either side.     
4)  Existing extensions in the house now connected to the VOIP socket, and handsets can make/receive calls.   (In our case, one extension with a DECT base station and several DECT handsets, and another with a fixed line phone). 

I don't know the REN number equivalent for the VOIP handset socket, that would set the maximum number of handsets on extensions.   



I'm still on the lookout for an end-user guide to operating the Voip service.  How does the user setup call-forwarding ?  Voicemail ?   etc..  With the old PSTN system, there was a set of phone key-pad sequences to set up all services. 


- Nigel

[Simon]

I'm still on the lookout for an end-user guide to operating the Voip service.  How does the user setup call-forwarding ?  Voicemail ?   etc..  With the old PSTN system, there was a set of phone key-pad sequences to set up all services.

I was wondering that myself.  On a proper VoIP phone it's all in the menu settings, but of course, a conventional DECT phone won't have those same settings. 

Just a thought - given (I assume) the router handles the calls, could there be something in the router settings?

I was also wondering another thing, and that is, if you have Call Forwarding activated on a VoIP service, will the calls still be forwarded in the event of a power outage?

I have a Siemens Gigaset base station with two additional handsets.  Obviously the 'satellite' handsets work without being connected to a phone socket, so I don't think I would have a need to play with my old phone wiring when I switch, to make the extensions work. 

[stan]

I'm guessing Openreach haven't been today, Simon?

There were a few mentions about setting up things like call forwarding if you continue to use your own phones (plugged into the TP Link).

You won't be at all surprised that I don't know the answer but I am reasonably well aware that the other ISP that I won't mention has stuff published on its web pages.  I believe they call their technical information something like "Control Pages" - and I do know that, regarding answerphone messages, they have the facility for callers to your number to leave a message and for that message to then be sent to your email.  Obviously you need to know how to turn that on and off by means of a setting or somesuch and one would hope it's not too complicated.

And regarding getting the password or configuration information from Idnet in order to get your stuff working - both the ISPs that have been mentiond (Idnet and the other one) have been 100% sure that they will give the customer the details fo configure their own gear. One of them even said the other day that if I give them the name and some sort of identification of my own locally based tech fella who would help me get stuff up and running they would make a note of it and then happily speak to him on the phone regarding whatever configuration details he needed.

I have, this very morning, figured out how to run an ethernet cable from the room where my PC is sited - all the way to the loft. I don't know if it's the done thing to instal a second router or some other type of extender or mesh device in the loft to act as a sort of wi fi booster (I believe it might be called an Access Point but could be wrong.  But the installation of a cable is apparently a major benefit over wi fi if you're having trouble making it reach the parts other routers can't reach.

Does any clever bod know whether we run CAT 5 or CAT 5E or CAT 6 ethernet cables these days? And if there's good and bad cable to buy or if you have to have external spec cable if you run some of it outside?

[NigelC]

.....
I have, this very morning, figured out how to run an ethernet cable from the room where my PC is sited - all the way to the loft. I don't know if it's the done thing to instal a second router or some other type of extender or mesh device in the loft to act as a sort of wi fi booster (I believe it might be called an Access Point but could be wrong.  But the installation of a cable is apparently a major benefit over wi fi if you're having trouble making it reach the parts other routers can't reach.

Does any clever bod know whether we run CAT 5 or CAT 5E or CAT 6 ethernet cables these days? And if there's good and bad cable to buy or if you have to have external spec cable if you run some of it outside?

If you attach a WiFi Access Point to your ethernet cable, with the Access Point getting its DHCP allocation from the main router (thus its the main router which is deciding which device gets which IP address), and set the new Access Point to use same SSID name/password as main router.    Then you've built an extended WiFi network;  your devices will select the strongest signal as you move around the house.      (Its essentially how my house is wired). 
The cable solution is better than a "mesh" product, but has the hassle of installing a cables. 

( Sometimes an old broadband router can be configured to act as an ethernet WiFi access point as above.  It depends on router, but might mean a solution is possible with old-free kit.). 


Cable types:   "outdoor" spec cables are usually more stable from light and movement. Cat-5 isn't fast enough (100Mb/s),  use 5e or 6.  They are, essentially, similar for domestic use at 1Gb.   6 is officially capable of a little faster (10Gb over shorter runs), but there's not much domestic stuff which goes faster than 1Gb.    The quality of the crimping at the ends is significant, particularly if fitting own plugs/sockets. 


Nigel

[stan]

Thank you, Nigel. You've covered several points for me there.

When I do take the plunge and get FTTP (which is getting closer now) and get the new router (probably the Technicolour 4134 I'll know wherther we need some form of extender to serve upstairs.  I will, obviosly enough, have the Billion 8800 AXL R2 as a spare router and could, perhaps, use that as (what I believe is called) an Access Point upstairs - attached to the ethernet cable that I'd run up there.

Thanks again.

[stan]

A bit out of the blue ... although not entirely off topic ..... if I do run an ethernet cable from my new router (when it comes) to feed my old Billion router upstairs - or in fact any hard wired booster / extender device  .... it would be 99% indoors except for a couple of metres tucked out of sight behind a rainwater down pipe and another 5 metres pinned to the outside wall of the house ( semi sheltered but admittedly exposed to a bit of sun and rain.

Now to my question :-  I can see you can buy CAT 5E and CAT 6 ethernet cable on 50 and 100 metre drums (I'll check to see which I need) and I can see you can buy external and internal. You can buy copper or, cheaper, copper covered aluminium.

If you search the net a million people tell you CAT 5e is good enough for up to 1 gig (which is way more than enough for me) and is also easier to handle. a further million people will say you need to future proof yourself and get CAT 6.

And let's not forget shielded or unshielded! That confuses me quite a bit.

Not to mention stranded or solid conductors.Although I've worked out that solid is better than stranded for my long permanent run.

It does seem important though to get the right option regarding internal and external I admit I'm especially unsure about that.

Furthermore there six million places selling countless different makes. I've seen Kenable widely sold plus Toolstation do Pitacs albeit not external.

There's Cable Monkey and theres a gazillion other names that mean nothing to me.

There .... I reckon I've convinced you people that the world genuinely is a confusing place to be

[Simon]

I've told you a quadrillion times not to exaggerate, Stan. 

[stan]

It's a good job we can laugh about these things, Simon, otherwise we'd all become boring old farts just waiting for nurse to come round with the medication trolley.

Oh, hold on a minute ......

[zappaDPJ]

For what it's worth I use https://www.designacable.com for all my cable requirements. They won't be the cheapest but their cables are second to none in quality plus they cater for custom requirements. I've bought literally hundreds of cables from them including multiple CAT6 RJ45 cables and never had a single failure.